Marketing
How to Get Guests on Your Podcast When Your Show Is Still Small
Here’s how to get guests on your podcast when your show is still small: give them a clear return on their time. Land one recognizable name, even if it costs you something, then use that name in every invite after it. Track what you send their way and show them the numbers. Then keep showing up every week, because guests check whether anyone’s actually listening.
Mike Dillard is an online marketer and the host of the Self Made Man podcast, which has passed 2.5 million plays and downloads. Crazy stuff. He had me on his show as one of his very first episodes, so it was good to return the favor and bring him onto the Addicted2Success podcast.
We covered a lot: his automated hydroponic garden, webinars, skill sets and what self-made really means. But the part I keep coming back to is how he books people like Tony Robbins and Gene Simmons. Mike warned me his answer might be “a little disappointing.” It wasn’t. It was just honest.
Why big guests say no to small shows
Mike put it simply. For a big guest, “it’s simply a matter of ROI for them. Is coming on your show and spending an hour with you worth their time?”
Then he gave the math. “If you’ve got an audience of 3,000 people, probably not. But if it’s 300,000, the answer is yeah.”
That’s the chicken-or-the-egg problem every new host runs into. The bigger the show, the easier it is to get bigger guests. But how do you build a big show without big guests? Everything below is about breaking that loop.
I like that he didn’t sugarcoat it. A lot of advice on this topic tells you numbers don’t matter. To the people you really want, they do. An hour of their time is expensive, and you have to make it worth it.
Know why your show exists before you pitch anyone
Mike’s first point surprised me. Before you think about guests, he said, “you have to know what your actual objective for the show is.”
He didn’t start Self Made Man to build a giant podcast. He was deep in building a hardware product and couldn’t disappear on his audience for two years. A podcast let him “deliver value and to stay in front of my audience on a regular basis” without eating his time, because the guests deliver most of the content. “I just have to show up for an hour a week and that’s it,” he said.
He also had an advantage most people don’t. The day he launched, he says he had an email list of about 300,000 people. He’s never advertised the show, he doesn’t monetize it, and he doesn’t even ask guests to share it.
That matters for you. If you already have an email list or a customer base that wants to hear from you, a podcast is, in Mike’s words, “a fantastic way to continue to communicate with your audience.” If you’re starting from zero, your plan has to be different, and the rest of this article is that plan.
One more thing he does that’s easy to copy: prep. Mike says he does 30 to 60 minutes of prep before each episode, and more for a big name. Right before we spoke, he’d spent about an hour and a half researching Reddit cofounder Alexis Ohanian for his own show. Guests notice. If you want the on-air side, this guide covers the essential elements you need to deliver a spectacular podcast interview once they say yes.
Land one VIP, then use them in every invite
This is the strongest idea in the whole conversation. Mike calls it “a credibility game.”
Get one recognizable guest, he said, then put that name in your invitations to the next guests. “Hey, by the way, Damon John and Tony Robbins and Gene Simmons have been on the show previously.” Suddenly you’re “a much safer bet” for the next person. They think, “Oh, okay. This is a real show. Sure, I’ll be on.”
He was open about what it took to get those first names:
- Persistence. Mike says he reached out to Tony Robbins “about nine or 10 times until he said yes.”
- Paying for access. He says his team paid Gene Simmons’ PR firm “a couple of grand” to get Gene on, because a guest at that level would “take the show’s credibility to a new level.”
- Help with booking. He says he pays two people a per-episode fee to book guests. They know exactly who he’s looking for.
His advice on the first VIPs: “even if you have to go out and pay a PR firm or whatever… to get those first VIPs, then do it.” Each big name makes the next one easier. He called it an “upward spiral of credibility.”
Put some skin in the game
I liked that Mike was transparent about paying for it to happen. Some people won’t say it out loud, but in a sense, you may have to put some money down and make that investment.
It’s how I got Gary Vaynerchuk. He was a fan of Addicted2Success and knew about us, but that still wasn’t enough. His book was coming out soon. So I said, cool, I’ll buy 50 copies. I think I got a special price, and it came to about a thousand bucks.
Then I flew to New York for it, because I was like, all right, I’ve got this interview with him. I filmed the conversation and pulled the audio from that for the podcast. The video now has 120,000-something views organically on YouTube, and the podcast episode got maybe 40,000 to 50,000 plays.
Here’s the part that matters. I still have people who come to my events and buy my products who tell me, “I first saw you on that Gary Vee interview.” I’ve already made the return on that investment. That’s what a long tail looks like when the guest is the right one.
Mike said he’d done the same thing with Gary and gone even deeper, buying a much bigger batch of books, though he couldn’t remember the exact figure. And he made a point I agree with completely. “I don’t deserve Gary’s time,” he said. “I can go and earn it and support him.” You’ve got to earn whatever you want.
He told a story about a stranger who saw his ad and messaged him on Facebook asking how to build an e-commerce store. Mike said that was like asking Elon Musk how to build a rocket ship. When the guy accused him of only being in it for the money, Mike’s answer was: “If you want my time, become a customer because they’re the ones who deserve it.” Big guests think the same way about their hour on your show.
Keep it legitimate. Buying a guest’s books or paying their team’s fee is fine. Being shady about it isn’t. Be upfront with your audience if a booking involved money.
Show guests what’s in it for them, then track it
If you’re going the podcast route and you’re ready to commit for a two-year minimum, start tracking what you send your guests. Find a way to track link clicks or people going to a page for someone’s book.
Here’s what I do. I promote an article with the episode’s embedded player in it and a link to the guest’s book on Amazon. You can set up an affiliate link or a link shortener and track the clicks.
When Daniel DiPiazza launched his Rich20Something book, I set up a link for it. I sent about 1,500 people to his Amazon page, and we sold about 120 books. Daniel’s like, this is dope, man, I want to do more things with you to see if we can move more books.
And because I measured it, I can now show other authors how we track it and what kind of numbers we get. That makes them more inclined to say yes. Everyone’s favorite radio station is WIIFM: what’s in it for me? You’ve got to find how you can exchange that value.
The social proof guests check before they say yes
Mike says guests look you up before they agree, and he does it himself. When people invite him onto their podcast, he checks their past episodes. “If… they don’t have any activity there, I’m just like, I can’t do it, man,” he said.
He boosts every episode on Facebook to keep that page looking alive. He says he spends $300 to $500 a week, and his episodes typically show 10,000-plus shares. A potential guest who lands on that page gets “a very different impression” than one who sees 50 shares.
He was also honest that the likes don’t always turn into listens. Some episodes got 30,000-plus likes and maybe 20,000 downloads. For him, the boost is about staying in front of his audience every week and showing proof, not a growth hack. Those are his numbers and his budget. Spend what you can afford and watch whether it’s doing anything for you.
I’m the same on the other side. I stopped saying yes to every new show. When someone just starting out asks to have me on, I ask them straight away, “What’s your numbers?” Or I’ll ask, are you willing to push this? Because I’m giving you an hour of my time, and if it gets zero plays, or one play, it’s not worth it. I want to reach more people.
Mike has a filter for this too. When very young entrepreneurs ask him onto a brand-new show, he tells them to get their Facebook fan page to 5,000 fans first, then call him. One of them did it about a year later, and Mike said, “Awesome, brother. Let’s do it.”
That’s not gatekeeping. It’s a test of whether you’ll actually go out and do the work.
Commit for two years or don’t start
When Mike was planning his show, he asked Lewis Howes for the secret. According to Mike, Lewis told him that unless you’re willing to stick with it for at least one to two years consistently, don’t even bother starting. At least once a week, for two years, or don’t bother.
Mike says that turned out to be true, partly because podcasts have a very long tail. Episodes from his first couple of months are still being downloaded dozens of times a day, he says. “It’s not like an email where within 3 days it’s gone forever.” Get to 100 episodes and those downloads add up.
He also says about 90% of new podcasts won’t last a year, so if you make it to three years, “just on that alone, you’re going to be in the top 10% of your niche.” That’s his estimate, not a study.
Friends used to come to me asking how to create a website like Addicted2Success. I’d help them, and three months later they’d give up and say, “This is crap. This isn’t working. I’m not making money from my ads.” I’m like, are you serious? I didn’t make any money for at least the first 15 months. You’ve got to be patient. Mike loved that. The waiting keeps the crap out, and it’s a good filter.
Mike’s warning: don’t start just another interview show
This was the most honest thing he said. “If I was starting a podcast from scratch, I don’t think I would,” Mike told me. The market is crowded, and he says an interview format alone gets lost: “it’s being done a thousand times every single day right now and you’re just going to fall into the noise.”
His advice is to make sure there’s “an aspect of it that’s incredibly unique,” based on experiences or value you already have. If you don’t have that, he wouldn’t put time into a podcast as your main platform. If you have an existing audience or customer base, it’s a great idea.
It’s blunt, but that’s why it’s useful. Mike says it’s not the beginning of any of these platforms anymore, so you’re going to have to be creative and dogged for the next couple of years. Make sure there’s a reason people would pick your show over the thousand others.
How to get guests on your podcast: a step-by-step plan
- Decide what the show is for. Serving an existing audience or building a new one changes everything about how you pitch.
- Find the unique angle. Give guests and listeners a reason your show isn’t just another interview format.
- Book one name people recognize. Ask more than once. Mike asked Tony Robbins nine or 10 times. Budget for it if you have to, whether that’s books or a fee.
- Use that name in every invite. Past guests are your credibility ladder.
- Track and report results. Clicks, book sales, downloads. Show guests what they got, and show the next guest what they’ll get.
- Make your episode page look alive. Guests check. Promote every episode so the proof is there.
- Prep for every guest. Mike does 30 to 60 minutes at least.
- Show up weekly for two years. Most shows quit. Outlasting them is an advantage on its own.
FAQ
How do you get guests on your podcast when you’re small?
Give them a return on their time. Land one recognizable guest, mention them in every invite after that, track the clicks or sales you send each guest, and keep publishing weekly so your episode page shows real activity.
Should you pay to get a big guest on your podcast?
Sometimes it’s worth it. Mike Dillard says he paid Gene Simmons’ PR firm a couple of grand, and I bought 50 copies of Gary Vaynerchuk’s book. Be upfront with your audience about it, and only spend what you can afford.
Do podcast guests care about your download numbers?
The big ones do. Mike Dillard says it’s simply a matter of ROI for them: is an hour with you worth their time? Many guests check your past episodes and engagement before they say yes.
How long does it take to grow a podcast?
Plan on at least one to two years of weekly episodes. That’s the advice Mike Dillard says he got from Lewis Howes. Episodes have a long tail, so downloads keep adding up as your back catalog grows.
Is it worth starting an interview podcast?
Mike Dillard says only if something about it is unique, or if you already have an audience to serve. A plain interview format is being done a thousand times a day, so you need a clear angle to stand out.